Return To Homesh

I just got an SMS saying:
חוזרים לחומש: המאבק על החזרה לחומש נמשך! כולנו באים לעזרת 1500 הגיבורים הנאחזים במקום! הסעות מביבי האומה בירושלים משעה 9:30 עד 11:30. הגעתכם חשובה!!! העבר

Sender +97297922073
Sent 8:58:18 27-03-2007

This was in addition to a message I recieved erlier.

The gist is that they are bussing in more people to Homesh to try to take the land and build on it, against the agreement with the Army which they made...prepare for violence.

I have much more to say, but I am going on a tiyul around the area of Jerusalem with some friends, and I am late. Well I am off to Sataf

Couldn't Find Wireless in Palestinian Area A

I was in Bethlehem on Thursday and Friday. I thought I was going to blog from there. I couldn't find wireless. I was too tired to use the computer of the family I stayed with. I am working on a post about it on my laptop with pictures. Should be up soon

I went with this group
http://encounterprograms.org

I am in Raanana now, and rushing off to minha. So I will write more later to you readers

Dancing in YPT

Now to Ben Hazmanim

Grog against Iran

The Petition doesn't suggest using force against Iran. It talks about sanctions, which is something I think any sane person would agree with. The question is do they really mean it, or is the bait and switch of the IAJV?

So go sign it!

Missiles will be falling on me tommorow

The rescue services will be dispatched to other "missile landing" areas in Petah Tikva and in a Jaffa community center. In Be'er Sheva a drill will be held simulating a "mega-terror attack," simultaneous to a heavy barrage of rockets in southern Israel, causing many injuries. - ynetnews

Don't worry its just a drill.

Its also the first time they are doing this. It sounds like a good idea. I just wonder if we are supposed to do anything when we hear the sirens. I mean its all very nice to test emergency services. But one of the biggest problems of the Lebanon war on the home front was the lack of adequate unlocked bomb shelters.

We can stop bashing the French?

(IsraelNN.com) According to recent reports, French President Jacques Chirac was willing to support an Israeli attack on Syria during the 2006 war with Hizbullah. Chirac sent a secret message to Israeli officials saying that France would give Israeli full support if Israel were to invade Damascus and topple the current Syrian regime.

Israeli political commentators explained Sunday that the secret message shows Chirac’s understanding of the situation. Chirac realized that Syria is responsible for arming and supporting the terrorist group Hizbullah, they said, and saw Israel’s struggle against Hizbullah as legitimate.

Well I am surprised as you are about this. It doesn’t make up for the antisemitism in France.

It poses an interesting question. If Israel had the international support to deal with the root of the problem, why didn’t they?

NYTimes on Darfur & Israel

Looks like I should have gone to yad vashem with the group. Well it looks like they had a good time at least. And by good, I mean meaningful as anyone who has been to Poland with a Jewish group knows.

NYTimes

Well I already went on one trip with them, and I can't just leave yeshiva for every trip, even if it is volunteering.

[hat tip shmarya http://failedmessiah.typepad.com/failed_messiahcom/2007/03/darfur_refugees.html ]

RAL – facebook and Ha’aretz

Gush alumni are big fans of RAL. Some are so devoted to him that they ironically become Hassidim of Rav Aharon Lichtenstein. If you thought rebbe worship was something only for the ultra-Orthodox, you would be mistaken.

There are facebook groups such as I♥Rav Aharon

People at Gush were even thinking of printing shirts with “I♥Rav Aharon”, of course not to be worn in the biet midrash or anywhere where Rav Aharon would see you

One of this years ideas for the overseas program sweastshirt with Mt. Gushmore, moddled of course on Mt. Rushamore with the likenesses of the four Rashei Yeshiva (Rav Ahraon, Rav Amital, Rav Gigi, Rav Medan) cast into the cliff face.

There is this fan website. He admits:

This is either the closest thing I have to God or the closest thing I have to Avoda Zara. Or both.

If you want a more reasoned approach to Rav Aharhon I suggest you read his books, or at the very least this Ha’aretz article

Concerning Yonatan Bassi, Lichtenstein argues that, as head of the Sela disengagement administration, he displayed conduct reflecting profound morality, as well as Zionism and a sense of mission. "His actions betrayed neither his nation nor the religious camp," he states categorically. "He wanted to serve Israel's best interests. He wanted to open the eyes of a public that was uninterested in understanding the situation. I think such conduct deserves respect. I am very angry that there are still people in my world who not only state that he failed but joyously celebrate that failure."

This does not mean that Lichtenstein completely condemns the criticism directed at Bassi. He believes that, when people say harsh things, they are showing they really care. "We live in an era when the future of the Jewish community here and Israel's future hang in the balance, and some people are more sensitive to this than others," he notes. "The British poet and writer T.E. Hulme related how, during a discussion in France of who was the better dramatist, Shakespeare or Racine, people threw chairs at one another. That shows they deeply cared about the issue."

Somehow I don’t think that Rav Aharon would find it acceptable to throw chairs in the beit midrash. Also he is not exactly condoning people’s actions, he is just saying that it is good that people are passionate.

Nonetheless, he observes: "When people become more religiously observant, they are convinced they have a monopoly on the truth. Although they might care more passionately about certain issues, they are not particularly imbued with a sense of humility or self-criticism that is rooted in a full-fledged spiritual world. They are unprepared to hear what others have to say because they believe it might weaken their religious faith."

It is easy to imagine that this criticism is leveled against the Hardali - the Hebrew acronym for Haredi (ultra-Orthodox) nationalist - community. Although, in his view, the Hardali community displays some degree of intolerance, he sees a definite advantage in the strengthening of religious behavior it has fostered: "The Religious Kibbutz Movement is considered tolerant but is also perceived as prone to making compromises. Religiously speaking, it is less impassioned. The Hardali community is devoted to the Torah and strictly obeys the commandments."

Its interesting that he says that, considering how I have heard many times that despite the machon at gush he doesn’t exactly have a great love of academic Jewish studies. I for one would much rather be an impassioned meticulous member of the Religious Kibbutz Movement than an open-minded Hardali

Lichtenstein says that it's not his political positions that have changed; rather, the national-religious camp has moved further to the right. "Today," he admits, "I am in a political wilderness. I once belonged to the National Religious Party, but today the party is unprepared to hear my views."

People tried to obfuscate and doubt the move to right religiously, but I doubt people have the hutzpa to try the same tactics to convince us that Religious Zionism hasn't taken a drastic right wing turn politically. They also have taken on right wing politics as a religious credo, almost on the level of Rambam's 13.

Nevertheless, he emphasizes that he has never been a member of Meimad, although he supports it from behind the scenes: "I do not see myself going down that route. I advocate territorial compromise, but also hold the view that Jews must never be indifferent to the various parts of Eretz Yisrael, the Land of Israel."

His support of territorial compromise is based on the religious principle of piku'ah nefesh, Judaism's paramount directive to save human life. Soloveitchik also spoke of the need for territorial concessions. "When we talk about territorial compromise, we are talking about a calculated risk," explains Lichtenstein. "And, as long as experts see such concessions as serving Israel's best interests, we must respond. If every lieutenant in the army chooses to ignore policies established by democratic forces, that is a problem."

Don’t worry folks he hasn’t turned left on you. He is still central, all of you just ran as far up those Judean hilltops as you could.

There is also the moral aspect. "When a society becomes overly militaristic spiritually, a price is always paid," he explains. "One price is narrow-mindedness. Unfortunately, that statement holds true for a fairly large segment of the religious-Zionist community."

I’ll let that stand

*BONUS*

Then why is he in the minority? Why has modern Orthodox Judaism not caught on here in Israel?

"The very complexity of that outlook," he replies, "requires a certain level and ability to balance things and clarify issues. It is much simpler to follow a single flag."

The YouTube of documents

I just found this website that lets you upload documents from almost any format and then converts them to PDF, Word and even audio. It does this for free, and you can set the document to public or private. If that weren’t enough you can also embed the document anywhere!
We are used to embedding videos, and this isn’t that different. It takes a bit of getting used to, but it is an amazing resource.

Like YouTube, it also will have copyright issues. I don’t know about you but I do have a problem with ripping, burning and downloading music illegally. I know almost everyone does it, and there have been many attempts to say that halakha doesn’t prohibit the practice. It’s interesting, the very same rabbis who complain about the slippery slopes in other areas will be the first to moreh heter for music and media. I am actually don’t have as much trouble with books. I know that for long books with large distribution that you want to actually read, you will want a real copy and support the author. For books with small distribution the royalties are tiny and it all goes to the publishing house. Why would I want to support a publishing house in its efforts to destroy forests? I still know its wrong to download copyrighted materials of the internet no matter what the format, but with google’s book project, and the access that we all have to public and academic libraries I know the lines are fuzzier here. At the end of the day I believe that data wants to be “free.” Not it the sense of zero-cost, but in the sense that it should be accessible to as any many people as possible without physical, technological or economic boundaries.
We have seen companies respond to the amazing ease with which it was possible to view and download their content. I am talking positive models, not suing YouTube. I mean things like opening up their databases to be people who want to view content and wouldn’t mind too much for a small fee to access content. Hopefully this will lead to the same results in print without all the road bumps. That looks unlikely to me, because despite the warning about copyright and some great documents that were out of copyright or not copyrighted, the site lets you upload anonymously. It’s too easy to upload things you shouldn’t be and have no responsibility.
Anyway for a positive use of Scribd, here is the diagram with text of the mishnah yevamot 4:7

In Defense of YCT

I am not going to link to the horrible posts attacking YCT, but I will bring you this. A very worthwhile read:

http://indefenseofyct.blogspot.com/

Keeping it short!

Haveil Havalim #110 is up

Haveil Havalim #110 is up this time on soccer dad

Go check out the interesting posts. I won't bias you by saying which ones I liked.
I just should have submitted a better one myself.

meh, I have been using it for a while

Meh - the word that's sweeping the internet

How was my weekend? Meh. The mehness of it is indescribable. Just one big, fat meh. If you are an old-media kind of reader, "meh" won't mean a whole lot to you. The word has appeared in the national press three times in the past year. If you gain new vocabulary from conversation, it is probably unfamiliar. If you can't be torn from the web, however, you will almost certainly know it, and its meaning.

Meh means rubbish. It means boring. It means not worth the effort, who cares, so-so, whatever. It is the all-purpose dismissive shrug of the blogger and messageboarder. And it is ubiquitous. On the I Love Music messageboard, for example, 4,010 separate discussion threads feature the use of "meh". - The Guardian

I have been using this word on and offline for years now. So my response to this article is "meh"

learning moed katan

With the starting of tractate Moed Katan, R' Chaim Kanievsky said that it is known in the name of the Chasam Sofer that there is a concern in learning Moed Katan because of the fact they you are learning the halachos of mourning. Therefore the Chasam Sofer said that a person should give charity before learning this tractate.

R' Kanievsky added that certainly someone who gives charity to "Kupat Hair" will be saved from any pain and anguish and has nothing to worry about.

As always, the names of all donors will be passed on to R' Kanievsky for a blessing

- published in the Yated Neman via Jewish Worker

Its a good thing I don't believe in the superstition and also follow Rabbis who think learning Moed Katan is important.

And to quote the Rav when people asked used to ask him for a bracha (blessing) :

What are you an apple?

Also it is shameless to say donate to my charity and no harm will come to you. Now if that only worked.

Math while listening to the parsha

While I was listening to the Torah reading I did some quick math in my head twice

The first instance was when the Torah was going over the donations, I was wondering how much is a ככר(kikar, talent) of precious metal? So first I thought, well maybe

כד כָּל-הַזָּהָב, הֶעָשׂוּי לַמְּלָאכָה, בְּכֹל, מְלֶאכֶת הַקֹּדֶשׁ--וַיְהִי זְהַב הַתְּנוּפָה, תֵּשַׁע וְעֶשְׂרִים כִּכָּר, וּשְׁבַע מֵאוֹת וּשְׁלֹשִׁים שֶׁקֶל, בְּשֶׁקֶל הַקֹּדֶשׁ.

24 All the gold that was used for the work in all the work of the sanctuary, even the gold of the offering, was twenty and nine talents, and seven hundred and thirty shekels, after the shekel of the sanctuary.

So first I thought: maybe its 1000 shekel. its more than 730. But then:

כו בֶּקַע, לַגֻּלְגֹּלֶת, מַחֲצִית הַשֶּׁקֶל, בְּשֶׁקֶל הַקֹּדֶשׁ--לְכֹל הָעֹבֵר עַל-הַפְּקֻדִים, מִבֶּן עֶשְׂרִים שָׁנָה וָמַעְלָה, לְשֵׁשׁ-מֵאוֹת אֶלֶף וּשְׁלֹשֶׁת אֲלָפִים, וַחֲמֵשׁ מֵאוֹת וַחֲמִשִּׁים.	26 a beka a head, that is, half a shekel, after the shekel of the sanctuary, for every one that passed over to them that are numbered, from twenty years old and upward, for six hundred thousand and three thousand and five hundred and fifty men.
כז וַיְהִי, מְאַת כִּכַּר הַכֶּסֶף, לָצֶקֶת אֵת אַדְנֵי הַקֹּדֶשׁ, וְאֵת אַדְנֵי הַפָּרֹכֶת: מְאַת אֲדָנִים לִמְאַת הַכִּכָּר, כִּכָּר לָאָדֶן.	27 And the hundred talents of silver were for casting the sockets of the sanctuary, and the sockets of the veil: a hundred sockets for the hundred talents, a talent for a socket.
כח וְאֶת-הָאֶלֶף וּשְׁבַע הַמֵּאוֹת, וַחֲמִשָּׁה וְשִׁבְעִים, עָשָׂה וָוִים, לָעַמּוּדִים; וְצִפָּה רָאשֵׁיהֶם, וְחִשַּׁק אֹתָם.	28 And of the thousand seven hundred seventy and five shekels he made hooks for the pillars, and overlaid their capitals, and made fillets for them.

Which reminds me of the nice drasha how all the people of Israel were equal and of utmost importance when it came to the very foundation of the משכן(tabernacle). Well turns out, not quite, they really only needed 100 talents so 1775 shekel was used for other things, still a nice drasha so I am sure there is a way to work this out nicely.
Anyway the math
603,550 people (men over 20 of the nation of Israel) give 0.5 shekel which makes 301,775 shekel. Subtract 1775 for the left overs and you are left with 300,000 shekel being equal to 100 talents, meaning one talent was 3,000 shekel. Hmm before I calculated it during the reading I thought it would be 2,000 shekel, I wonder why I thought that?

Then later we have the Golden Altar for the sacrifices of animals, I always think of it as very big and impressive, tall and imposing. Well, it couldn't be that big, it would have to be carried whole.

א וַיַּעַשׂ אֶת-מִזְבַּח הָעֹלָה, עֲצֵי שִׁטִּים: חָמֵשׁ אַמּוֹת אָרְכּוֹ וְחָמֵשׁ-אַמּוֹת רָחְבּוֹ, רָבוּעַ, וְשָׁלֹשׁ אַמּוֹת, קֹמָתוֹ.

1 And he made the altar of burnt-offering of acacia-wood: five cubits was the length thereof, and five cubits the breadth thereof, four-square, and three cubits the height thereof.

An אמה(bredth) is normally 5 tefachim(handbreadth) but for the משכ ן(tabernacle) it is 6. A handbreadth is taken to be between 8-10cm. So it is between
3 x 6 x 8cm = 1.44 meters (4'8") and 3 x 6 x 10 cm= 1.8 meters (5'11")

I guess I already knew that, but I just usually thought of it as bigger in my mind. Well if you didn't know, now you do

RSS feeds - right wing conspiracy? not any more

So I just started using RSS feeds. I have been so hesitant to do this for some reason. Normally I am the first one to try to get my hands on technology, but this one took me a while to get comfortable with. While setting up some RSS feeds with this blog
Subscribe in a reader

I finally decided to start using the myself. I actually like it, it means I can quickly browse many blogs and see when people actually update. I am using Google reader , and I have to say so far I am really impressed.

Now the title mentions a right wing conspiracy. So what is this conspiracy?
the RSS feed symbol is Orange. It is very clear that they are protesting the disengagement. Don't worry Feed Icons is here to save the day for those left wing bloggers who are tired of the right wing imperialism and neo-colonization of the blogosphere feeds

Not a fan of orange? Download the package and customize the icon to your liking. It is believed that as a symbol, the feed icon is recognizable enough that it doesn't need to be restricted to one colour.

I'll stick with orange, thank you. Its my protest to the anti-disengagement folks attempt to take a colour and give it political connotations. Everything in Israel is already political, do we really need to politicize colours?

Sudan fights for right to do Evil

Apparently Sudan finds it easier to fight the law instead of following it.

Sudan would rather fight a lawsuit about their assistance to terrorism, rather than stop the actual terrorism.

Sudan would rather fight a UN condemnation of the genocide in Darfur, rather than stop the actual genocide in Darfur.


Sudan rather than claiming it had no involvement in the Bombing of the USS Cole, tries to get off on a technicality

Families of American sailors killed in the suicide bombing of the USS Cole warship are suing the government of Sudan, accusing it of aiding terrorism.

They claim the African nation helped al-Qaeda, which was blamed for the attack, and are seeking damages of more than $100m through a Virginia court.

Sudan has tried to have the case dismissed, saying too much time had passed since the 2000 bombing. - BBC

As for Darfur, Sudan doesn't just rely on technicalities, it creates them:

Sudan tries to block UN from considering Darfur atrocities report

March 13, 2007 (GENEVA) — Sudan on Tuesday accused a United Nations panel of bias, and moved to block the U.N. Human Rights Council from considering its report accusing Khartoum of orchestrating attacks in Darfur.

Sudanese Justice Minister Mohamed Ali al-Mardi told the 47-nation council that the American head of the mission, Nobel laureate Jody Williams, took "a preconceived and hostile attitude against Sudan."

Al-Mardi said Sudan "strongly and resolutely" opposes any consideration by the council of the report, which he said should be dismissed because it was written without the team having visited Darfur. The team said it had to proceed that way because Sudan refused to grant them visas. - Sudan Tribune

And if that wasn't enough, they also lie

"Any attempt to confer legitimacy on this mission will constitute a serious and dangerous precedent in the eyes, not only of the Sudan, but also of many members of this esteemed council," al-Mardi said.

He asserted that two of the six team members had failed to participate, which made the mission "no longer valid."

U.N. officials said Indonesian Ambassador Makarim Wibisono had withdrawn from the panel, but that he was the only one to do so. Gabonese Ambassador Patrice Tonda had to return to Geneva while the panel was waiting in vain for Sudanese visas, but he remains a member of the panel, the officials said. - Sudan Tribune

Some may think that we shouldn't be overly harsh with the Government of Sudan, but as an Israeli Jew, I have no reason to pretend to love a government which gets into bed with Ahmadinejad.

A Random Mishna in Yevamot (4:7 + diagram)

I was happily learning Mishna Yevamot until I got up to this one, when suddenly even with all of the help of Kehati I was underly confused. I made a diagram of it, and now digitized it. So now all of you can learn this random Mishnah. I don't want to even think how complicated the Gemara must be on this one. Anyway, all of what I am talking about is centered on just the last line.

ד,ז החולץ ליבמתו--הוא אסור בקרובותיה, והיא אסורה בקרוביו. הוא אסור באימה, ובאם אימה, ובאם אביה, בבתה, ובבת בתה, ובבת בנה, ובאחותה בזמן שהיא קיימת; והאחים מותרים. והיא אסורה באביו, ובאבי אביו, בבנו, ובבן בנו, באחיו, ובבן אחיו. מותר אדם בקרובת צרת חלוצתו, ואסור בצרת קרובת חלוצתו.

I tried translating that last line for the last while, doing lots of searches and thinking, but I give up. If anybody wants to suggest an good translation, please leave a comment.

This is just how complicated Yibbum and Halizah used to be when men had multiple wives.
An explanation of the diagram:
Diamonds are males. Circles are females.
Shapes with the same color are related, brothers or sisters.
Hollow shapes are dead, full ones are alive.

Click on the picture below to be able to actually read it:

Colbert Report: 3rd World should donate to USA

It gets funnier as it goes along. Near the end I was laughing so loud my roommates asked if I was ok. Luckily they weren't trying to go to sleep yet.



I just wish I could see the whole show online, which had Nicholas Kristof as the guest, but with Viacom cracking down on YouTube, and Comedy Central not letting us see the whole show, its not going to happen. Would it hurt them to host whole shows and forcing us to watch commercials?

For those of you who don't know Nicholas Kristof, I suggest you get to know one of the most well regarded reporters on Darfur. And a lot more, this is from the the NYTimes:

About Nicholas D. Kristof

Nicholas D. Kristof, an Op-Ed columnist for The Times since November 2001 and previously one of its associate managing editors, is the winner of two Pulitzer prizes. Mr. Kristof has lived on four continents, reported on six, and traveled to 120 countries, plus all 50 states, every Chinese province and every main Japanese island. He's also one of the very few Americans to be at least a two-time visitor to every member of the Axis of Evil. During his travels, he has had unpleasant experiences with malaria, wars, an Indonesian mob carrying heads on pikes, and an African airplane crash.

Luckily I headed over to Kristof's blog and found that although injured by Colbert, he put a link up to more of the show...still not the same as the whole show though

Kaluach3 Funny Help

Kaluach3 is a program that besides helping you with the Jewish calendar also gives you complete customizable zmanim, daf yomi(bavli and Yesrushalmi), Mishna Yomi, Halakha Yomi, and Tanakh Yomi.

I was going to try to figure out how to use it with Google calendar, which I am now starting to use to keep track of where I will be when during ben hazmanim (intersession for Yeshiva). In the end I found the easiest way to get a Hebrew calendar, Hebrew dates, שבת times was by using hebcal which lets you export a calendar according to your specifications in either iCal or a CSV, which are both recognized by Google calendar.

But while searching the Help file of Kaluach3 I found some funny things, among the serious questions pertaining to how kaluach figures out the zmanim and the different halakhic shitot (opinions)

" - quote marks, used in rashei teivot (phrase contractions)

In Hebrew, phrase contractions are called rashei teivot, or "the first letters" (of the words in a phrase). Years ago they were commonly used to cut down the size of a book since printing was quite expensive and time consuming. Today, when printing is much cheaper, rashei teivot still appear in places where the context is clear, or in books that were printed using the original plates (or photocopies).

Rashei teivot are also commonly used by the Israeli army in order to obfuscate even the most trivial matters. It is common to receive an order to report to army reserves with a line, stating the objective, similar to this:
מטרה: שחיו"מ טב"י א:כ שטויות

It might look like this in English
Objective: tcx"e pi"w z"a nonsens"e

Upon calling the army to clarify, the usual answer is something like: "I'm not sure what it means, but I think you'll be doing guard duty or driving a jeep."

gehinnom - loosely translated as "hell"

This is a sort of holding tank where those whose fates have yet to be decided wait. Gehinnom physically resembles a dentist's office with Barry Manilow songs piped in 24 hours a day. Israelis wait in a separate room that resembles an Interior Ministry office with Tzvika Pik songs piped in. This is a place to be avoided at all costs.

tzaddikim - "the righteous ones"

Tzaddikim are those individuals that devote their lives to the service of the Almighty and to helping their fellow man. They also eat foods rich in fiber and don't put sugar on their grapefruit.

And after a long complicated explanation of shitot for tzeit hashabbat

David Kramer has suggested the inclusion of the "Egged tzeit Shabbat" (Egged is the major bus line in Israel). To the best of my knowledge, this is based solely on observation... If no one's looking, start the bus.

Its true that buses in Israel depending on which city they are in, do drive or don't, but Egged is no El-Al. Egged only runs buses 30 minutes after Shabbat goes out they say, but according to which shita?

And I'll end off with one funny mistake

In order to prevent desecration of Shabbat, the Chief Rabbinate decreed that the 27th of Nissan falls on Sunday, Yom Hashoah will be observed on Monday.

No, the Chief Rabbinate does not have the authority to fiddle with the calendar and decide that the 27th of Nissan will always fall on a Sunday.

Amazing article on Palestinain Youth from the NYTimes

A Review of The Front Page New York Times Article of March 12th, 2007
Years of Strife and Lost Hope Scar Young Palestinians
See the picture that goes with the aritlce

This story has so many points that could be used to show pro-Palestinian or pro-Israel bias, but at the end of the day I think it is an objective perspective of one journalist looking into the future of Palestinian youth. Sure its all quotes by Palestinians, but the spin is mostly absent. Sure, some stuff is blamed on Israel, but that is partially true, and definitely is the major Palestinian perspective. However there is internal criticism too. What is frightening is that the internal criticism is that they haven’t done a good enough job harming Israel, but it is more about the failure to build a future for Palestine than destroy a future for Israel.

The article starts out with an objective and frightening statement:

Their worried parents call them the lost generation of Palestine: its most radical, most accepting of violence and most despairing.

The first quote sounds like it could from PMW

“Ever since we were little, we see guns and tanks, and little kids wanting little guns to fight against Israel,” said Raed Debie, 24, a student at An Najah University here.

But that is responded to by

Issa Khalil, 25, broke in, agitated. “We never see anything good in our lives,” he said. He was arrested for throwing stones in the first intifada, the civil disobedience that began in the late 1980s and led to the 1993 Oslo accords with Israel. He was arrested again in the second uprising as the agreement faltered.

I wouldn’t exactly call the intifada civil disobedience. Also, the agreement didn’t falter with the second intifada, it was being broken by Palestinian terrorism, and a Palestinian Authority which did nothing to stop the scourge.

Then we get to the depressing part

Few talk of peace, only of a lifetime of “resistance.”

Opinion polls show a generation more supportive of armed struggle and terrorism than their parents, according to Waleed Ladadweh of the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research. The violence is directed not only toward Israel, but also toward one another.

We are given the Israeli line and the Palestinian line as to why this is happening

Now, the only Israelis whom Palestinians see are armed — soldiers and settlers. The West Bank is cut into three parts by checkpoints; Gazan men under 30 are virtually unable to leave their tiny, poor and overcrowded territory. Few talk of peace, only of a lifetime of “resistance.”

Many Israelis agree that the current generation of young Palestinians has been thoroughly radicalized, but say that is the product of Palestinian political and religious leaders who have sanctioned and promoted violence and terrorism against Israel.

Both are true, and it’s a viscous cycle. But, it is not the “cycle of violence” that everyone talks about, that could be broken by anyone at anytime. Israel can not suddenly decide that it does not need to protect itself, the Palestinians could decide to stop their propaganda and their attacks. That’s all very nice, but telling other people to change doesn’t work, what can Israel to do help? The security fence is an amazing solution. This “apartheid wall” will actually ease life for Palestinians and make it easier for them to commute and move. Less checkpoints will hopefully be neccasary, and there will be less need for confrontation between the IDF and Palestinians.

A few paragraphs down we see that the Israeli line is probably more accurate

“We’re pushed all the time to be more political, more militant, more religious, more extreme,” said Shadi el-Haj, a 20-year-old student at An Najah. “We want to be Palestinians, like the generation of the first intifada. But people push you, ‘Are you Fatah or Hamas?’ All our problems start with, ‘I’m Fatah, I’m Hamas.’ It wasn’t like that before.”

We also get a chillingly accurate depiction as children as pawns used and abused. Reminds me a bit of Molech worship, I guess all that death-cult stuff wasn’t far off target

“It was always our choice to be fuel for the struggle,” he said. “But our problem now is that the car burns the youth as fuel but doesn’t move. There’s a problem in the engine, in the head. These kids are willing to be fuel, but many have been burned as waste.”

Later we have Mustafa (age 6) saying:

‘I want to be fat, Mommy,Because I want to put on a suicide belt and not have the Israelis see it.’

I recently have had a few conversations with people about what they really think the current situation will lead to. Here is what some Palestinians think of where we are all heading

For the Id al-Fitr festival, the boys asked for toy Kalashnikovs and Uzis, and they know all about the crude rockets, the Qassams, that militants fire into southern Israel. “They classify the weapons, they want a particular gun,” Mrs. Assar said. “And when you think of the violence, and what future will we have here? It will be a very violent future.”

Mr. Assar broke in. “The world is moving ahead, and we’re moving backward,” he said. “We’re back to 1948.”

Doesn’t give much hope does it? Well at least maybe someone will realize there that they are stuck in 1948, and that they should move along and come up with some new ideas, hopefully ones that don’t involve violence.

Here is what a remember of of the Abu Rish brigades, a militant Gazan offshoot of Fatah that opposed the Oslo accords with Israel and has moved closer to Hamas, has to say:

Raed, 30, was arrested in the first intifada, when he was 16. He felt a hero at the time, but the political result, the 1993 Oslo accords, “were useless and benefited Israel,” he said. “No one can resist with stones or build a nation without violence.”

You can’t resist with stones? Wasn’t that what the whole first intifada was about? I guess he means that he thinks the current means of "resistance" with bigger and bigger guns is actually helping...except he doesn't.

“Hamas and Fatah are so divided, the goal of Palestine disappears,” he said. “I talk about willing my children to be martyrs for Allah, but I honestly wish for them to be safe and healthy, that’s all.”

Now if this is what some crazy terrorist is saying, how much can we extrapolate to what real Palestinians are feeling deep inside?

There is bravado there, but also frustration. None of the fighters, who agreed to talk if their last names were not published, believes a Palestinian state will be established; none can imagine living next to Israel. All of them want to leave and start again, somewhere.

That’s amazing. Now if Israel could just figure out a way of making that dream come true. Its funny that they want to start again elsewhere. They are the ones who created this situation. It was there choice to use first stones and now AK-47s, they should clean up the mess, rather than run away from it. If the Palestinians wanted to, I do believe they could “stay, start again, right where they are now.” But if they don’t want to, how come there aren’t right-wing NGOs devoted to helping Palestinians leave Gaza and the West Bank? After writing that, I realized that there are some who help Palestinians and Israeli Arabs move away after they sell their land or property, but why not expand beyond that?

With the economy of Gaza shutting down, much of the work available for young people is either in the swollen and disorganized security forces or in the armed militias or gangs, many of them built on clan loyalties, and some of which engage more in racketeering than in fighting. Hamas and Islamic Jihad, with considerable financial help from Iran and Syria, are known at least to pay their people, even if Hamas cannot pay full salaries to all Palestinian Authority employees.

Hassan, 21, ran out of money before finishing university, but cannot imagine what he would do in Gaza with a degree. “I look at the graduates here, and their diplomas are useless,” he said. “That’s why I’m in the resistance.”

Many were skeptical that the Palistinians voted in Hamas for anti-curroption and ecomic reasons. Why not vote Hamas, when we all know that Fatah is no less violent? Oh, yah they are fanatical book banners, but hey they give us money. It’s pretty sad that a degree is worth nothing and that it is easier to fight. Yet that doesn’t excuse your decision to go around and kill people.

According to the Palestinian Human Rights Monitoring Group, about 19 percent of those killed since 2000 have been 18 or under, whether in fighting against the Israelis or among Palestinian factions.

You know all those complaints about Israel killing children? Guess what? When you use children as soldiers, its inevitable. Also note this report is careful to include the important information that the death tolls we see include Palestinian internal violence.

To anyone seriously interested in getting the Palestinians out of the west bank and gaza, dream on. We can’t get olim to Israel, what makes you think you will get the Palestinians out of where they are? There are millions of them. Sure some of them want to go:

Where young Palestinians once dreamed of staying to build a new state, now many are giving up and scheming to get out.

Moayyed Haj Hussein is 22, educated and well spoken. But after he failed to find a job in six months, his mother pressed his brother-in-law to give him work in a coffee shop near the Hawara checkpoint, which the Israeli Army uses to control who comes in and out of Nablus.

He hates waiting on people and washing dishes, and says he is still looking for a decent job. But he is also looking to get out — to the United States, if possible, where his sister lives, but “almost any place,” he said, “where I can work and live a normal life.”

He is a Palestinian patriot, he insists. “But there’s no hope here,” he said. “You see the situation. It’s useless to think it will improve. You see it; it just gets worse.”

If we help people like Moayyed get out it will just get worse. The brain drains the every country worries about are probably the most severe with the Palestinian population. The smart people find ways out. Not only that, but the more liberal minded Palestinians will be found in scattered throughout the world. If people like Moayyed leave en masse we will be left with a more violent Palestinian population, if that is even possible to imagine.

In his own quest to leave, Mr. Hussein, the cafe worker, has contacted the American Consulate in East Jerusalem. But, he said, “I can’t get a permit to go to Jerusalem to make an application.”

What about those who would accuse you of giving up your rights in your land?

Mr. Hussein turned away. “I don’t care,” he finally said. “I want to live happily.”

If Hussein and those who are like him leave, there is no hope for peace. Remember the famous golda quote?

Peace will come when the Arabs will love their children more than they hate us

Well when the Palestinians concentrate more on building a Palestinian state than destroying the State of Israel there will be peace. It is tautological that those who leave י"שע (West Bank and Gaza) care more about their livelihood than about destroying Israeli livelihood. When they leave they take with them the last shreds of hope for the peaceful formation of a Palestinian state.

One thing both people on the right and the left would probably agree with is that we find a way to let Mr. Hussein into ירושלים (Jerusalem). Its funny how things work out that way sometimes, in this crazy country.